Success Without the Sacrifice | The Entrepreneurial Journey

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Get coached and learn more at sherpaeo.com. Welcome to The Entrepreneurial Journey with your host Dave Wescott. The Entrepreneurial Journey is a weekly podcast that streams live every Tuesday at 9:15 a.m. Pacific on Dave's YouTube channel and LinkedIn profile. Now, here's Dave with this week's episode. >> Good morning and welcome to the entrepreneurial journey. I'm your host Dave Wescott and I have with me this morning special guest Gwennne Ellis, founder and CEO, the mind director, creator of false logic. Gwennavir, good morning.

>> Good morning and uh thank you for having me. >> Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. As I was going through some of the notes that I had for the show, you you have a you have a you have a question in here. We have some statements in here and the one that really struck that really stuck out to me before we get going and before we you know know about everything but this really struck out stuck out to me and it said a lot of entrepreneurs assume that getting to the next level means working harder taking on more pressure or sacrificing more of their personal lives.

You argue that greater success doesn't necessarily require greater sacrifice. How did you come to that conclusion and what does that look like in practice? That was very intriguing to me. >> Ah, interesting. You know, I get asked that question all the time because, you know, we all have this kind of pre-built belief that, you know, you work hard and then you get the rewards of that. In fact, you know, it's something back in the 90s, back in my corporate days, it was something that was celebrated actually. you know, the longer hours you work, the more you're celebrated.

And actually, it's interesting because it's something that I made a personal pledge for way back in the 90s when I was in my 20s. I was head of finance for British Aerospacer for one of their plants in the UK. And I was young. I was in my 20s and everybody was working very long hours. And uh and I was told that's what was expected. And I didn't want to work really long hours because I was Yeah. building my career but also young and wanted to build my life. And so I decided that that wasn't part of my belief system.

I just decided I wasn't going to believe that. And so I never really worked the long hours. So I was very productive and I did you know really good work during the you know during the working day but it became a thing for me that I don't work long hours because I don't believe that I need to do that. And so I was in corporate for many years earning, you know, what would be classed as a good salary, a good six-f figure salary. And I worked full-time, you know, Monday to Friday, but I didn't work those long hours. But I did have this belief if I wanted to go to seven figures and above, then I would need to work long hours.

So I sort of did have it a little bit, right? Like if I want to go further, then I would have to work much harder. And so for years, I stayed at that kind of six-f figure level because I didn't want to sacrifice my life. So I thought, well, I'll I'll do I'll do this work and I'll get paid decent money, but I'm not going to sell my soul for my job. But interestingly, as I became more involved in the human mind and the mind behind success, I left the corporate world and built my own business and got to seven figures by working very much shorter hours, should we say.

So, I work mainly part-time. So, I work school hours. I have two teenagers and so I don't work all through a lot of the school vacation times. And my business earns a lot more money than I would ever have earned when I worked full-time. So, by my own story that I've proven that it's not about what most people think it's about. >> That's very interesting. I'm very intrigued. You've got me going here. So, we've got you've got this business, the mind director. You're a sevenf figureure entrepreneur who basically works school hours.

How in the world did you develop this? So the mind director is is the title that people have called me since the 90s actually because back in the day when I was uh when I was in corporate and I was always looking at let's look at the people and what the people believe before we look at the strategy of the business and somebody said to me back then you're the mind director you're not the finance director and it kind of stuck and so that's kind of what um I guess you know what people call me. So my business guineaver Ellis International is uh the business model has been created in a way because of course I come from a finance background so I understand you know the business model aspect of it.

So what I've developed is a business model that supports that. So we have um an academy where entrepreneurs can go through this specific process that teaches them how to change the way their mind is working really. So because this is a scalable model however many people join that group or the the academy or various things within it doesn't take more hours from our side. So I do work with some people onetoone. So I work with some um founders or some high netw worth individuals on a one-to-one basis but that isn't the model because that isn't really scalable right in terms of my time because then I would have to work a lot more hours if I was supporting a lot of people onetoone.

M >> so I keep the number of people that I work with onetoone to a minimum which is only three at any one time and then everybody else comes through the the group work. >> Okay. So they so basically that you've got the academy and the academy walks you through how you adjust your mind and how you adjust your thinking to work less hours but be more productive and achieve more revenue. Is that is that in line or am I off? >> So I'm not talking about just mindset okay about how to be you know more productive during the day.

That is a small part of it but it isn't really what this is about. So if you think about uh you know all of us in childhood and we saw our parents you know have particular work ethic particular view of money particular view of uh wealthy people particular view of certain kind of professions and so on. As children we absorbed all of these and they became our our kind of um modus operandi the way that we see the world. And so as we grow up, we we go about our own, you know, our own lives. But all of this programming was actually created way before we had the analytical mind, you know, that we were capable of of um you know, rejecting something for example.

So in my own upbringing, you know, I remember my parents used to say, "Oh, they're the rich people." So I didn't grow up, you know, in a very wealthy background, but there was this kind of belief like, oh yeah, they're the rich people. And because you, you know, you you grow up with these kind of beliefs, you just kind of accept that is true, you know, because you believe your parents. So for the rest of your life then once that programming is done by the time you're kind of eight or nine then your brain then sifts out reality in line with what you believe for the rest of your life unless you change it.

So you'll see somebody successful and you'll immediately notice how hard they work. You will see somebody maybe wealthy and you'll immediately notice that maybe they had the contact that you didn't have. So your brain processes things to keep it in line with what you believe is the way of the world. So when somebody goes to achieve a substantially, you know, something much bigger than they've ever done before, the brain doesn't have like a reference for that because it's kind of thinking, well, I've only got the past experience and everything that I've noticed, so I don't actually think that's possible.

So for me, work, you know, earning seven figures without selling my soul, I couldn't work out how that would happen because I'd never seen that done by anyone before. So the process that I do then is show people a mirror in effect of what they believe about money, about success, about how hard you have to work and all of these things, including their view of themselves and people like me, what people like me are capable of. Once you start to change that, you start to make different decisions. You start to take different action.

You start to behave differently. you start to put yourself in circumstances or you know in front of opportunities that maybe you wouldn't have before because you wouldn't have thought that would work or that it would be that it would work for someone like you. So in effect then it's not just teaching you how to be more productive during the day. It's changing your whole view of everything to do with success, money, success, yourself, other people, how hard you have to work. And so that's why the results that our clients get are so unrealistic, I suppose.

You know, when you look at where they start and you look at where they are at the end, you'd think, how would you do that in a short period of time? And that's because the way they look at everything has changed dramatically during that period. >> That's very, very, very cool. I mean, it's very it's very unique what you're doing. So people come to you and they go through the they go through the program they grow they go through what you've created how long of a course program is this >> so this is six months and it's something that I have developed myself now for 20 odd years I was in corporate so I was in senior leadership in finance I qualified uh in insolveny law as well so business recovery and so on so I've had I suppose that's been my you know my research search facility in effect because I was always thinking how can these two people be so similar on paper but their results are so different and this person is constantly being promoted and this person just isn't and they're blaming things outside of themselves like oh the boss doesn't like me or you know my job is hard or whatever.

So I was always so fascinated by what is it what is this key to success you know to massive success. So when I started this business, it wasn't that I kind of pivoted from what I used to be to doing something different completely. This was always the through line for me. So at at university, I studied finance, accounting with psychology, which is kind of quite an unusual combination because I was always so fascinated about the behavior behind the success. So the work that my clients go through over those six months then it's not something that I've read in the book in a book somewhere.

I actually went back when I started this business and I plotted all of the successes and all of the failures that I had ever had in my life. What was I thinking? What was what was my view of myself? What was my view of money? My view of success. Why did I make that decision? Why how did I get that success? And how did this happen? this misfortune or whatever so that I could work out exactly what it was that created my success because I created great success in business in corporate and I was not the most technical accountant by far >> but I was still able to get the the you know the head of position when there was somebody maybe technically more qualified than me that wouldn't get that role.

So by assessing and analyzing all my own successes and all the people that I'd worked with because I also um ran a division of a business school in London for 10 years and I'd done the same looking at professionals, people from the UK government, lawyers, accountants, people you would think they would all be equal of, you know, equally capable of success and they just weren't. So all of that together is what I've developed into a system which is what my clients go through in the program. >> Wow, that's amazing. What are the what would you say are the top things that someone leaves this school with?

What are what are the understandings? What are the changes? What are some of those things that are just like, wow, this was the developmental change that came from attending this schooling? Yeah. So I would say in fact I was talking to a client of mine a couple of days ago. So he started with me two years ago. So he finished the program. He did a year with me. So quite a few stay on after six months because they want you know support to go to the next level. And when he started with me he was earning around about $60,000.

He had tried to start b a business before. boy tried to become an entrepreneur and he'd tried many businesses and none of them had worked. So they'd got to a certain level and then just kind of failed and he was kind of uh thinking I know that I can do it but I don't know what's stopping me. So going through the process he 4xed his income in the first kind of oh probably seven months or so. Then he started a different business with uh with a a business founder, with a business partner. They got to a million dollars in the first year.

Then they got to when I spoke to them earlier this year, they'd made $750,000 in January alone. And now they're going through the process of um acquiring a business valued at 10 million. So when you look at that growth in one individual and that's been over you know about two over about two years now right from when he started. So the the work isn't you just stay and learn it forever. You learn it and then you can then apply it forever because you never go back to seeing things the way you used to see them. You don't see the world in the same way or success or hard work or yourself you know.

So when I was talking to him the other day and I said, "What was the biggest change for you?" And he said, "Definitely my identity, like my self-image, the way that I see myself." Because if you see yourself as somebody who tries and fails and tries lots of different things and it doesn't work, then that becomes your expectation, right? You know, the expectation effect. Oh, why would I bother? You know, you hear people say, "Oh, just my luck." you know, because they've got used to thinking, well, that's just the way things work for me.

But that isn't that's just the way things may have worked in the past because of how you've seen business and success and money. But when you change all of that permanently, it's like you see the world in a very different way. So, I would say that's definitely one of the biggest ones. >> Did you ask me for two or three? Shall I give you another? >> Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to hear another. It's fascinating work that you do. Yeah. So this is another So these are all American clients actually in um so so I had another client who um had a very successful business.

So he was making about 11 million and and by the way all my clients are not you know multi-millionaires by the way you know some of them start they're only you know on about well as I said he was on about 60,000 when he started the other client. But this particular client though, he saw me speak at an event in Miami and he came to speak to me after I came off the stage and he said, "I'm really fascinated by by your talk and what you do, but I've been trying to grow my business overseas for uh decades." He said, "And it's just not possible in my line of work." And so I said to him, "Well, where would you like to grow to?" And he said, "Well, I'd love to open an office in Dubai." And I asked him why haven't you opened an office in Dubai?

And he gave me all of the reasons why. Now you mentioned you know false logic when you introduced me at the start and I'm just going to share with you what that is. So this is something that I it's part of my own intellectual property. So I developed the concept of false logic because it was something that I was constantly seeing in people and this is a prime example. So when I asked him why haven't you started opened an office in Dubai? He said I've tried. I've tried and it's just not possible. I said why? And he said because they don't like Americans.

They don't um respond to my emails. Um I've tried to do this. And he gave me all of these reasons why. Now false logic as I describe it is it's not the same as a limiting belief. Okay. So when people talk about limiting beliefs, they kind of know that they've got a limiting belief quite often, right? So people say, "I know that I've got a limiting belief that I'm not good enough or that I'm inferior or whatever." They kind of know that that they have it, but they just don't know how to shift it. But with something that I call a false logic, they don't realize that it's not a fact.

So they say, "This is the reason why I'm not where I want to be." And they give the reason. and they believe so much that it's factual. It is true. I've got evidence that it's true. I've tried XY Z and I can show you all the proof. It's true. But it isn't true. You see, it's the way that when you have a belief, a false logic as I call it, then the way the mind works, you will always see evidence of that. Okay? You will always see evidence. So he worked with me for six months and he opened his office in Dubai and I spoke to him recently.

So this was a year ago. I spoke to him recently. His business is now 20 million. So it was 11 million before and he has an office in Dubai. So that gives you an example of of how it shifts things for people. >> Yeah. How do you how do you go about identifying that false logic and then correcting the false logic behavior? Like like how do you actually do that? Like I I can understand in theory it's like okay well here's a here's a list of reasons why I I can't get what I want and and I'm and I believe those things and then you listen to those things and then there's some reframing and some restructuring and some you know some casting out of the old belief and some an adoption of the new belief.

But how do you how do you work that process through? So a lot of the um you know one thing actually to to mention here is that it's not like you have one you know or you know or five lists of things that you need to remove and then your the road is free because your brain is is creating more and more every day. Okay. So you'll be in a conversation with somebody you know I was speaking to somebody recently who was a sale who's in sales and because every time he spoke to this kind of person he got a no and therefore he had concluded that those kind of people don't buy this kind of thing right so so you know your your mind is creating these kind of things all the time these kind of conclusions all the time so to change that isn't just about oh look that's a that's not true let's remove it because initially you don't believe it's not true because you've got evidence to support it.

So it's much deeper work than just let's just change that belief. So as I was sharing the bigger picture of it is changing what you expect, what you see, how you see other people, how how what you conclude from certain things that happen, um how you attach meaning to something that happened in the past and now that's become a belief. So there are lots of different elements. So within my uh my work, I take clients through various shifts. So it's not just let's remove false logic and now it's good. There are lots of different shifts within your and I call it the subconscious.

So it's the part of the mind that we're not aware of. So there are lots of things going on in there, different beliefs like different logics, but also you know your view of different kinds of people and your view of different kinds of situations. So it's not about just removing that one thing in isolation. It's the bigger picture of how you see success and the world and yourself and you know money because that is a big one for a lot of people >> and that could be different for everybody. >> Exactly. But you see ultimately once you understand your own mind you understand everyone's to an extent.

So a lot of my clients then they understand how you know the minds of other people work and this is not something you know strange. What I mean is you just understand that people make decisions based on you know certain things. And so the way you operate, the the actions that you take, the um you know the the the bold moves that you make are very different because you understand other people as well as yourself, you know. So it is different for everyone. Of course, everyone has different conditioning, but the way that I've structured it is that the everybody goes through the same shifts, but each shift will be different for different people.

So for example, one of the shifts is fear. That's a big one. So another client of mine, she wanted to become an entrepreneur, but she had been in the same role for 25 years and wanted to start a business. And for 15 years, she had been trying to leave the the job to start a business, but she had all these reasons why it wasn't possible. So for 15 years she'd been in personal growth in terms of worked with coaches, gone to events, these big motivational events, read all the books, watch lots of YouTube videos and so on.

And she was still adamant that it wasn't possible for her to leave the role uh because of all of these reasons. So when she worked with me, I could see that one of her false logic was actually fear disguised as reasonleness. And so when we worked through that, so one of them is the fear shift. So she within five months had resigned from her job after being there for 25 years. So that shows you that it's about compressing time because you know people successful people they know that they're capable but there are things that stop them from creating the result that they really want.

People go for what they think is realistic. And so, you know, one one of the key things, you know, the the the the starting point, I suppose, for everybody that I work with is is this question. What do you really want? What do you really want? Because we have been conditioned all of our lives to aim for what's realistic. You know, back in the corporate days, I used to learn about smart objectives. you know, uh, specific, measurable, realistic, time bound. That's how we used to work. But you see, the problem with that for most people is, and if you give these examples that I just shared with you, when you aim for something that's realistic, what's that based on?

It's based on what you currently believe is realistic. And what's that based on? It's based on your past experience. It's based on your own conditioning. It's based on other people you've seen. It's based on what you've seen evidence of. And so what you think is realistic is so below what you're capable of actually. So I always start with what do you really want, right? Not what you think is possible or what you think is realistic. what you really want and then we work backwards from there and then we create the mind that supports that rather than changing some things by becoming more productive so you can work less.

It's a big overhaul. And so I I I suppose I call it this way. I was talking to a mindset coach recently and he mentioned to me that he helps people cope better at their current level. So you know avoid burnout and um you know work life balance and so on. And so he said to me which I thought was a very good point. He said he said that he helps people m you know have a better life at their current level but my work is about changing the level so that you have a very different reality you know much more freedom of choice and so on backed by you know very different mind >> wow that's great I mean that's really that's really good work that you're doing so what happens you know you asked this question, what do you want?

And when you think about what do you want, that that can be such a loaded question. How do you help someone really cut through to, you know, is it like, oh, I want a bigger house or I want a new job or I want three kids and a boat week, you know, boating weekend every weekend or whatever. H how do you really get to what they want that really gives them that life that they've envisioned? How do you help them uncover that? You know, it's about knowing why you want it. Okay? So, when people says, "Well, I want a bigger house." But why do you want a bigger house?

Well, why do you want, you know, why do you want that success? Why do you want that much money? And ultimately, what people really want is what that's going to give them, right? So, for most people that I work with, ultimately when we drill it down, it's freedom, right? That's ultimately what most people want. Freedom to do the work that they love. freedom of choice, freedom to live the lifestyle that they want to live, freedom to work the hours they choose. So I have found that there are, you know, thousands of things that people want, but underneath it is some level of freedom.

And so what this work does is it doesn't just give you more money or greater success or a better relationship because I've had clients that have got married and everything through going through the process because when they're going through it with a business goal they realize that things start to change in other areas of their life you know because the way you do one thing is the way you do everything as they say. So you know there are big goals but I have found that even though there are so many different goals ultimately underneath it all is freedom you know a freedom to live to live the life you want but to do the work that you love as well.

So I had a client who had this goal of wanting to be you know in the media you know in the mainstream media. What was that really about? Was it about fame? Was it about you know ego? No it wasn't. It was about then having the choice to only work with the clients that she chose to work with rather than having to work with people because she believed that's the kind of people that her work, you know, that would pay her for her services. So there's an ultimate, you know, freedom element beneath it for most people. >> That's very interesting.

So you mentioned that you you know you're working with this person and they were doing about 11 million in revenue and then you know as time go on they opened up their office in Dubai and they they're doing their 20 million in revenue and as you work with entrepreneurs I'm sure that you're working with some very successful entrepreneurs who make many millions of dollars and are very successful and on the outside it might look like those entrepreneurs are very successful. they've got, you know, they're married and they've got the kids and they've got the home and the vacation home and the, you know, the Bentley or whatever it is that they've got going on.

They're very wealthy. They're doing a great job, >> but inside their business is really like a prison and they're very unhappy with themselves and they're very >> they don't like going to work. They don't like themselves and they don't even like being around their family because they don't like what happens at at work. You see that a lot in the entrepreneurial space. How do you help somebody work through that? Because they've got everything that the world would say is successful, but what they don't have is peace and happiness and joy in life that should be filled with those things.

>> Exactly. And you know this is the key. So when I say that people want freedom, it's actually freedom on three levels. So it's financial freedom, it's time freedom and it's mental freedom, right? So that the work isn't occupying all the hours, you know, and waking up in the night thinking about what needs to be done in the business. So it's not just freedom in terms of, you know, now I've got money. It's freedom on all levels because when you change so for example if you have um you know an identity and and a system you know a belief system in your mind that hard work comes from sacrifice then that becomes your norm.

So you think well that's what's necessary that's what I've always done. But when you change that and in fact I've got a really good example here of of that because I had a client who was working very long hours. she had this belief or her her work ethic. Aim high, work harder. Okay, so this was always her kind of belief. She saw me speak at an event, an online event. So I do a lot of uh kind of free online events, you know, just an hour's talk or whatever if somebody wants to hear more about the work. So she attended one of these free online events that I did and she booked a call with me afterwards and she said, "Well, I'm already making a million a year in my business.

So it is doing well, but I can't grow it beyond that and I'm working all these hours and uh their husband was spending, you know, most of the time with the children and she said, "If you could help me change that, that would be that would be brilliant for me." So she came on board into into the group and she in fact this I've got some videos of her on my website actually uh talking about her story. So she went within less in less than a year she started to work considerably less and she moved to a million a month uh income but and she was working a lot less.

So that's how it gives you that freedom of time. Now from the outside you think how on earth would you do that in a year? How on earth could you work less and make more money? But you see a lot of individuals who have a successful business, a lot of entrepreneurs, founders and so on, they have this belief that they have to be there. They have to do the work. They, you know, the business is their baby and nobody does it their way and they need to overlook it overlook. And I've certainly had the elements of that myself in my own business because we think well I know how it needs to do.

I'll just do it myself. But one of the problems with that is it does create a prison because if you have a belief the clients need me they want to work with me and if I you know grow my team and some of my team support the clients then the clients might lean. So I'll have to carry on doing it myself. So if you have that kind of belief system, you're working all the hours and you're bringing in a team and you're thinking they're not quite good enough because if I send them to the client, the client will leave. And so this becomes your way of operating.

But when you realize that this belief that you have and there this there's more than one belief there, okay, about you know how hard do you have to work, about the fact the clients will leave if they don't have you and so on. When that is worked through, what happened in this situation is that this individual then started to grow the team and it turned out that the clients didn't leave when they had other members of the team because it was under this person's direction. So she then started to work on the business instead of in the business.

And so it enabled the business to grow because she was not in the weeds all the time. And so of course the revenue was able to to you know dramatically increase whilst she was working less as well. So I I would always even though I came from a you know finance and business recovery background I would say with my hand on my heart that the root of extreme or you know exceptional success starts in the mind. It's the root cause of everything. Everything. That's really powerful and I really like how you broke that down.

I want to make sure I got them right. People are really looking for three freedoms. Financial, mental, and time. >> Exactly. That's what I discovered over 20 years of doing this work. >> Wow. That's powerful. And it's pretty cool. I I read in the bio that you did this all by being a single parent as well. You're raising both your children and you're doing that alone. How do you I mean that's got to be even harder, right? Because now you now there's no partner on the other side to help. So you're mom, dad, chef, chauffeer, business owner, like you're doing the whole thing.

How do you balance that whole life as a solo parent? >> You know, this is there's so many people that say to me, people that know me, I take my hat off to you all the time. You know, but you know, I was talking to somebody recently and she was saying that her husband goes away and she said, "I don't know how you do it because I had to do Duh." And she's listed all these things. But you see, it again, it comes down to the to your mind, right? So, how do you see things? So, I don't see things as um oh, this is difficult.

Oh gosh, I've got so much to do. I'm overwhelmed. Oh, gosh. I don't have that narrative in my mind. So therefore, I'm able to, you know, spend the time with my children at the time when they're when they're not at school, helping with homework and so on. But during the, you know, during the working day, I'm able to manage my work. In fact, this is something um useful because I I thought this today and this might be a useful point here. I was doing something uh in my business today and it felt really hard and it reminded me that I've always had this philosophy my whole life.

If something feels really hard, there's an easier way. And I stopped what I was doing and I thought, I'm just not going to do that activity. I'm going to come up with a different approach. And then [snorts] an idea came to me literally just before I came on this podcast. So, one of the things that I teach my clients is how can you access your subconscious for guidance, right? And this isn't some kind of um, you know, spiritual thing or anything because it's just that your subconscious has so much more knowledge than your conscious mind, right?

So, your conscious mind, your intellectual thinking mind, you know, it's it's your educated mind. So if you're thinking how can I do all this in the working hour okay so you know how can I do all that and you're starting to make list I've got to do this d and you're making a list and then suddenly you can feel overwhelmed because there's so much to do how can you do that in like you know seven hours or whatever it is right but the way that I approach this and I teach this to my clients is you can connect you there's a technique that I show where you can slow down your your brain waves now this sounds like really scientific there.

But but if you can get get to the point of uh you know quietening your mind so you're not listening to that full speed narrative that's going on all the time. If you can quieten the mind and you can stop and you can think right this is what I want to achieve. What's the best way to do that? and you sit there quietly, you will get some ideas that you couldn't hear when you were so busy working, working, working, you know, going through your to-do list. So, it's a way to access um, you know, your kind of inner GPS, right?

Your inner guidance. How can I do this in a better way? So, that's part of the work as well. So, a lot of the work is about changing how, you know, how you're conditioned, but it's also understanding how can you access that part of your mind. any time of the day to help you be more productive. So, it's not about, you know, time block, you know, your calendar, you know, it's not about that kind of stuff. It's about how can you learn to get your your mind on side because otherwise it's always pulling against you. >> Very, very interesting.

Okay. So, if someone wants to work with you, if somebody is listening to this and is like, man, this really resonates with me. I mean, it resonates with me. I think that's incredible work you're doing. How can someone find you? Are you on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, uh website? What are the best ways to get in touch with you? >> At the moment, LinkedIn is the only profile that we really use. It's the only platform that we really use. And this is something else as well. You know, people say in this day and age, you have to be on all the platforms to grow your business.

But I got to a million in revenue not on the other platforms. I've only used LinkedIn and I've only really started using in the last kind of six to 12 months actually. So LinkedIn is the best way to uh to get in touch or through our website gwyelis international.com. There's a contact uh page there and an email address inquiries.com. So you can drop us an email and uh you know share with us if you're interested in knowing how it works and you know if if you're interested in you know in in doing that work because you know it literally does change your life.

It's changed mine for sure because I used to work full-time for 20 years >> you know so it's very powerful. >> Amazing. I mean it it really it you are a powerful person. It seems like very very powerful work for sure. I mean I can see it. I can see it just with what you shared. I love how you broke down the financial freedom, the mental freedom, and the time freedoms. I I love how you broke those down. I love the examples that you shared of past clients. And uh and I and I loved how you talked about the gal that was that you were working with that said, you know, aim high, work harder, right?

Yeah. And then, you know, a million a year to a million a month. So, >> you know, you can really see that it's got some serious power to it. So, someone reaches out, they get into the program, they're rocking and rolling. That's that's great. Um, I've got, you know, one final question here on the show. We've got a big billboard, a big whiteboard on the side of the road. We got one word, one phrase, one sentence. What would you want to share with the world today? >> Change your thinking. Change your life. >> All right, I'm writing it down.

Change your thinking. Change your life. All right. That that is awesome. Uh Gwyneever, this has been an incredible show. It has been awesome chatting with you for the last 45 minutes. You've opened my eyes. You've enlightened me to a ton of things. I just I think it's really really powerful. And I and I love that you really talked about fear. You know, what are what are you afraid of? You know, >> they know they are capable, but they go for what they think is realistic. >> And that really holds them back. >> And what do you really want?

And why do you really want it? If you're out there in the audience today and you really want to discover these things, if you know that you're trapped in fear, if you know there's things that you're afraid of, you know that you're capable and you're going for what's realistic, you need to reach out to Gwenny and the team, you need to get in here, you need to do this absolutely incredible stuff. What do you want and why do you want it? >> The team will help you. I'm talking directly to the audience. the audience, what do they want and how are they going to get it?

Um, I think we know what you want. You've got it nailed. I mean, you've got it figured out. And so, I think that's been uh that's been an incredible that's going to been an incredible show, Gwennnever. Thank you so much for your time today. >> Thank you so much for having me, Dave. It's been a pleasure. >> Thank you. This has been the entrepreneurial journey. I'm your host, Dave Wescott. We are back 9:15 a.m. Pacific Standard Time every single Tuesday. If you like this show, give us a like, give us a share, drop your comments into the comment box, and listen, do yourself a favor and figure out what do you want and why do you want it, and then hit up Gwennavir and the team and get your mind directed in the right direction.

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